[advancemame-users] VGA to Composite

[Robinson, Eric]

I notice that people are selling VGA to composite cables on eBay for a
few bucks.

Examples...

http://shop.ebay.com/items/_W0QQ_dmptZPCAQ5fCablesQ5fAdapters?_nkw=vga+t
o+tv&_sacat=0&_fromfsb=&_trksid=m270.l1313&_odkw=vga+to+composite%3F&_os
acat=0

If you have a VGA card that does not have a TV out port but can be
configured to output TV frequencies, would something like this really
work?

--
Eric Robinson



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[John Ketchpaw]

if by "tv frequencies" you just mean "pixel clock", then no. svideo is a
compression of the 3 channel signal down to 2 channels, composite compresses
it down to 1 channel. it's pretty easy to do in a circuit, but at that
point you might as well crack open your tv and wire a chopped vga cable
right in ;).

If your TV supports component (3 cables), it's probable that this would work
for you: http://www.amazon.com/6ft-component-video-cable-HD15/dp/B000FM3EQ0

Post by Robinson, Eric
I notice that people are selling VGA to composite cables on eBay for a
few bucks.
Examples...
http://shop.ebay.com/items/_W0QQ_dmptZPCAQ5fCablesQ5fAdapters?_nkw=vga+t
o+tv&_sacat=0&_fromfsb=&_trksid=m270.l1313&_odkw=vga+to+composite%3F&_os
acat=0<http://shop.ebay.com/items/_W0QQ_dmptZPCAQ5fCablesQ5fAdapters?_nkw=vga+to+tv&_sacat=0&_fromfsb=&_trksid=m270.l1313&_odkw=vga+to+composite%3F&_osacat=0>
If you have a VGA card that does not have a TV out port but can be
configured to output TV frequencies, would something like this really
work?
--
Eric Robinson
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[Robinson, Eric]

Post by John Ketchpaw
you might as well crack open your tv and wire a chopped vga cable

right in ;).

I can do that? Cool. Do you have any links to instructions?


--
Eric Robinson





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[John Ketchpaw]

scuze the delay.

It depends on the manufacturer, but the jist is that unless you're a whiz
with a soldering gun, cracking open a consumer television will most likely
result in a broken television, and maybe a nasty electrical burn.

A little less risky (but still a significant undertaking) is to get a CGA
arcade monitor. I've been driving one via a pc in my arcade cab for quite a
while now...and the pixels are nice and fat and round :).

Post by John Ketchpaw

you might as well crack open your tv and wire a chopped vga cable right

in ;).
I can do that? Cool. Do you have any links to instructions?
--
Eric Robinson
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[rindahl]

Post by John Ketchpaw

Post by John Ketchpaw
you might as well crack open your tv and wire a chopped vga cable

right in ;).
I can do that? Cool. Do you have any links to instructions?

This kind of question has been asked and answered at arcadecontrols.com
forum. It isn't easy, and involves more than you can guess. I suggest, like
I did before, getting a different TV, with component. It's not like they
aren't inexpensive, just look on your local craigslist. Of course, if you
want to get seriously involved, though only if the TV has a great picture,
you can check this out:

http://www.8liners.com/datatech/monitor.html

[Robinson, Eric]

25" TVs with S-VIDEO inputs are hard to come by in my area, for some
reason. I've been camping on craigslist for 2 months. I've seen lots of
25" TVs, but so only 1 with S-VIDEO. I've seen lots of 27" TVs, but
those are too big.

Hey, here's a question. Do most people build cabs with horizontal
monitors and just put up with black margins on vertical games, or do
most people build 2 arcade cabinets? :-)


--
Eric Robinson
Director of Information Technology
Physician Select Management, LLC
775.885.2211 x 111


-----Original Message-----
From: rindahl [mailto:***@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 3:40 AM
To: advancemame-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [advancemame-users] VGA to Composite

Post by John Ketchpaw

Post by John Ketchpaw
you might as well crack open your tv and wire a chopped vga cable

right in ;).
I can do that? Cool. Do you have any links to instructions?

This kind of question has been asked and answered at arcadecontrols.com
forum. It isn't easy, and involves more than you can guess. I suggest,
like I did before, getting a different TV, with component. It's not like
they aren't inexpensive, just look on your local craigslist. Of course,
if you want to get seriously involved, though only if the TV has a great
picture, you can check this out:

http://www.8liners.com/datatech/monitor.html
--
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/VGA-to-Composite-tp20390806p20537874.html
Sent from the AdvanceMame - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


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[rindahl]

Post by Robinson, Eric
25" TVs with S-VIDEO inputs are hard to come by in my area, for some
reason. I've been camping on craigslist for 2 months. I've seen lots of
25" TVs, but so only 1 with S-VIDEO. I've seen lots of 27" TVs, but
those are too big.

Mmmm, right. I would think even 25s would have at least S-vid, but
truthfully I haven't seen many around, let alone on CL. I would either go 27
or 19. Certainly a decent 19" will have at least S-vid, though probably not
component. Or you can surrender and use a 21-22" PC monitor. Actually, if
you set mame correctly, you can get natural hardware scanlines, making it
much more palettable and then have all the perks of higher resolution
capacity for your front end, etc. If I had to go through it again, while
knowing what I do, I might do this latter suggestion.




Hey, here's a question. Do most people build cabs with horizontal

Post by Robinson, Eric
monitors and just put up with black margins on vertical games, or do
most people build 2 arcade cabinets? :-)

Are you married? That seems to be the general determinant. Comedic yet true.
For those who have the overall capacity and who wish to have separate
set-ups, they made one for each. Even at native resolutions, I don't enjoy
golden age (there was only one, mind) vertical games in 27 inches. 19 is
right, hence, I only need one rig. As for the margins, there's a third
option, usually. Set things up so there aren't any.

[Robinson, Eric]

If I had to go through it again, while knowing what
I do, I might [use a PC monitor].

It has been very tempting. The main reasons that I don't are (1) TVs are
cheaper, (2) modern arcade cabs are mostly 25", and (3) I want to buy a
monitor bezel/shroud, and those are made for 25" monitors.

Are you married? That seems to be the general
determinant. Comedic yet true.

Haha, 26 years and going strong. The wife has bought into my "retro"
theme for the living room. No way she'd go for 2 of them, though.

Even at native resolutions, I don't enjoy golden age
(there was only one, mind) vertical games in 27 inches.
19 is right, hence, I only need one rig.

I don't follow you on this one. Golden age games come in vertical and
horizontal. How does one 19" monitor work for you?

As for the margins, there's a third option, usually.
Set things up so there aren't any.

[rindahl]

There's a lot implied in what I say, but that you don't know because you,
apparently, haven't done the following things:

- played with a version each of mame before and after the video re-write,
and understand their features and how they work. Also read the help file in
Mame32/UI.

- gone to arcadecontrols.com and looked through the wiki, particularly the
monitor section.


By the way, I've gotten two functioning (well, mostly; one had a small
issue) 21" PC monitors for free via CL and freecycle, respectively. Some
people are TRYING to sell them and can't, even for thirty bucks.

[Robinson, Eric]

Post by rindahl
There's a lot implied in what I say, but that you don't
know because you, apparently, haven't... played with a
version each of mame before and after the video re-write,
and understand their features and how they work.

True enough!

Post by rindahl
gone to arcadecontrols.com and looked through
the wiki, particularly the monitor section.

Also true, although I have read very much in other places. I must say,
although I have built three statewide data networks and designed and
maintain a national ASP built on a wide variety of Linux and Windows
technologies, including shared-nothing clusters, high-availability load
balancers, meshed switching, VLANs, clustered firewalls, redundant
routing, and much more, I have rarely done as much reading on a subject
as I have done in my quest to build a freakin' arcade cabinet. The
problem is that reading simply does not replace experience. :-)

--
Eric Robinson


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[rindahl]

Post by Robinson, Eric

Post by rindahl
There's a lot implied in what I say, but that you don't
know because you, apparently, haven't... played with a
version each of mame before and after the video re-write,
and understand their features and how they work.

True enough!

Post by rindahl
gone to arcadecontrols.com and looked through
the wiki, particularly the monitor section.

Also true, although I have read very much in other places. I must say,
although I have built three statewide data networks and designed and
maintain a national ASP built on a wide variety of Linux and Windows
technologies, including shared-nothing clusters, high-availability load
balancers, meshed switching, VLANs, clustered firewalls, redundant
routing, and much more, I have rarely done as much reading on a subject
as I have done in my quest to build a freakin' arcade cabinet. The
problem is that reading simply does not replace experience. :-)

It helps to start with a top-down methodology, and then support it with the
correct information. Then it requires accepting something is going to be as
said, rather than questioning it because one isn't experientially familiar
and needing confirmation from another person who is. Such makes for the
greatest efficiency, all-round. Sure, I've found a lot of things out by
haphazardly playing with things, but only to a point, and because the
correct information wasn't available. At your level this isn't the case.

[Robinson, Eric]

Post by rindahl
Then it requires accepting something is going to be
as said, rather than questioning it because one isn't
experientially familiar and needing confirmation from
another person who is.

One of the truest sayings I've ever heard: "The man with an experience
is never at the mercy of the one who only has an argument." But, I would
add, the man with an experience AND an argument is in an even better
place than the one who only has an experience.

I have no trouble accepting something on authority. If somebody who
knows his stuff tells me, "This is the way it works," then I believe
him. But I also want to *understand* it. I'm sure you know how that
goes.

Sometimes the authority is working from different assumptions than you
are. For example, I picked up a copy of an 1100-page manual called "DIY
Arcade" by Craig Conway. Craig gives detailed, step-by-step instructions
on how to build a complete arcade cabinet, starting with the shopping
list and walking you through construction, software installation and
configuration, and so on, with hundreds of up-close photographs. It's a
fantastic resource.

Then I noticed something. He didn't really address the issues
surrounding horizontal vs. vertical games, overscan & underscan, black
bars, and so on. So I e-mailed him about it. He mailed me back saying,
"By golly, there are black bars on my TV. I actually never noticed. It
doesn't bother me."

So here's a case where proceeding on the authority's word (and there's
no question in my mind that Craig is one) would have lead me somewhere I
don't want to go. I want my games to use the whole TV screen and use it
correctly.

Plus there are so many "authorities" out there who give contravening
advice. If you go to EasyMameCab, you'll get advice on the best video
cards to use for each operating system and game emulator. But it only
takes 2 minutes to Google up some guy claiming something exactly
opposite.

I'm just trying to sift through the noise and learn as much as I can
from guys like you who have been there, while keeping in mind that you
may have started with different assumptions and goals than me.

Best,

--
Eric Robinson



Disclaimer - November 18, 2008
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[rindahl]

First off, I'm presenting no argument. I'm merely expressing things. As well,
there are no goals. There is only function, and the context determines it,
hence no decisions are necessary.

Next, though I generally have an intuition on what's authoritative, using
such a methodology as I described last, one knows very easily whether a
source is. Because at the outset one is always conceiving of and asking
fundamental questions, for example, what is the most important element of
the experience? Though my sensibility would point toward the 'display', the
answer may be different for others, but the question is still vital and
utterly useful, and if adhered to very guiding. (Of course, this process
transcends this context, though admittedly that is beyond the ken of most
humans.)

So, not only according to my answer, but in that there is, regardless, a
crucial element that Craig Conway is oblivious to (and I really wonder
how....), he isn't an authority. At least not comprehensively.

Now on video display, the author of easymamecab certainly IS. Regarding the
cards tested, I've seen no where else that is as comprehensive with the same
or other equipment; and given the methods obviously competently conducted,
I'm quite confident of the results. As for those cards' quality compared to
newer cards, one cannot say without further information, though there is the
implication that the cab is a mame cab and not meant to run high-end PC
games, hence the memory installed installed in the card, compatibility with
other apps, etc, is largely irrelevant.

But in any case, you're missing the point, which is: having the right
information and utilising the right methodology, in combination with one's
imagination, one can very appropriately conceive of, or simulate if
necessary, the experience. Or, if the experiential opportunity is available,
proceed much more dilligently and efficiently, and have a far greater
comprehension of the phenomenon, conditions, etc.

Requiring work is an emotional tragedy.

Post by Robinson, Eric

Post by rindahl
Then it requires accepting something is going to be
as said, rather than questioning it because one isn't
experientially familiar and needing confirmation from
another person who is.

One of the truest sayings I've ever heard: "The man with an experience
is never at the mercy of the one who only has an argument." But, I would
add, the man with an experience AND an argument is in an even better
place than the one who only has an experience.
I have no trouble accepting something on authority. If somebody who
knows his stuff tells me, "This is the way it works," then I believe
him. But I also want to *understand* it. I'm sure you know how that
goes.
Sometimes the authority is working from different assumptions than you
are. For example, I picked up a copy of an 1100-page manual called "DIY
Arcade" by Craig Conway. Craig gives detailed, step-by-step instructions
on how to build a complete arcade cabinet, starting with the shopping
list and walking you through construction, software installation and
configuration, and so on, with hundreds of up-close photographs. It's a
fantastic resource.
Then I noticed something. He didn't really address the issues
surrounding horizontal vs. vertical games, overscan & underscan, black
bars, and so on. So I e-mailed him about it. He mailed me back saying,
"By golly, there are black bars on my TV. I actually never noticed. It
doesn't bother me."
So here's a case where proceeding on the authority's word (and there's
no question in my mind that Craig is one) would have lead me somewhere I
don't want to go. I want my games to use the whole TV screen and use it
correctly.
Plus there are so many "authorities" out there who give contravening
advice. If you go to EasyMameCab, you'll get advice on the best video
cards to use for each operating system and game emulator. But it only
takes 2 minutes to Google up some guy claiming something exactly
opposite.
I'm just trying to sift through the noise and learn as much as I can
from guys like you who have been there, while keeping in mind that you
may have started with different assumptions and goals than me.
Best,
--
Eric Robinson

[Robinson, Eric]

Post by rindahl
But in any case, you're missing the point,

Probably. I do that a lot, not because I'm especially stubborn, but
because I'm sometimes a little thick. I tend to process information only
when I'm ready for it, and the process of getting ready is often slow
and laborious. I'm one of those guys who works through something
step-by-step until I eventually have an epiphany, and then it dawns on
me that my "epiphany" sounds suspiciously like what somebody told me way
back at the beginning. :-)

--
Eric Robinson



Disclaimer - November 18, 2008
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[rindahl]

No worries. Consistency and perseverance are helpful qualities.

Post by Robinson, Eric

Post by rindahl
But in any case, you're missing the point,

Probably. I do that a lot, not because I'm especially stubborn, but
because I'm sometimes a little thick. I tend to process information only
when I'm ready for it, and the process of getting ready is often slow
and laborious. I'm one of those guys who works through something
step-by-step until I eventually have an epiphany, and then it dawns on
me that my "epiphany" sounds suspiciously like what somebody told me way
back at the beginning. :-)
--
Eric Robinson